Deconstructing Mamas

• Reimagining Community - Lizz Enns Petters & Esther Joy Goetz

  In this third-to-last episode of Deconstructing Mamas, we talk about one of the biggest questions we’ve been asked over the past four years:What does community look like now, after everything we’ve lost?For so many of us, the communities we left behind were built around sameness — shared beliefs, shared behaviors, shared expectations. Belonging depended on staying inside the lines, and when we stepped outside them, everything changed.In this honest conversation, we explore:what we were actually grieving when those communities fell aparthow the loss showed up in our bodies, rhythms, and spiritual livesthe tension of wanting connection again but fearing hurt or misunderstandingwhat we truly need from community now (and what we’re no longer willing to sacrifice)the surprising, tender ways new community has begun to growWe talk about Esther’s spiritual direction cohort, our online book club, and the friends who love us with no agenda. And we talk about Lizz’s experience finding unexpected connection with the moms at her small-town school — community without pressure, performance, or shrinking.If you’re in the in-between — grieving what was and unsure what comes next — this episode is for you.There is a way forward.It may be smaller, softer, slower…but it will be truer.And you’ll know it by how deeply you can breathe there.

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• Sacred Rage - Ben Cremer

  We sat down with Rev. Benjamin Cremer, writer, pastor, and creator of Into the Gray, to talk about what it looks like to hold sacred anger with open hands.This conversation stretched from “What if I’m wrong?” to “How do we keep from passing our pain along?” We talked about retributive vs. restorative justice, how lament can heal our nervous systems, and why gentleness might just be the most radical form of resistance.Ben reminded us that curiosity is a spiritual practice, lament is a sacred protest, and gentleness—far from weakness—is creativity at its finest.KEY TAKEAWAYS: Curiosity loosens fear. It moves us from I know you’re wrong to What if I’m wrong?Sacred rage has a direction. Aim your anger at harmful systems, not at the people trapped inside them.Lament is how we stop passing pain. Naming grief in community transforms rage into healing.Gentleness is courageous. It interrupts the cycle of violence and control with creativity, humor, and love.Correction comes after connection. Whether in parenting, faith, or community—belonging comes first.Tradition is living faith. Traditionalism is the dead faith of the living.Transformation is slow work. Small acts of connection and compassion still change the world. WHY THIS EPISODE MATTERS: Because so many of us are carrying a mix of grief, anger, and exhaustion—and trying to figure out what to do with it.This conversation names that ache and gives it language. It’s an invitation to move from bitterness to belonging, from outrage to imagination.If you’ve ever felt burned by religion but still long for the sacred, if you’re learning to parent or protest differently, or if you’re craving a spirituality wide enough to hold lament and love—this one’s for you.

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• Learning to Trust What we Feel - Lizz Enns Petters & Esther Joy Goetz

  In this vulnerable and deeply human conversation, Esther and Lizz open up about the long, complicated process of learning to trust their emotions — after being raised in systems that taught them not to.They talk about what it means to rebuild emotional safety after high-control religion, where feelings were often dismissed as sinful, deceptive, or dangerous. Together, they explore how learning to honor their emotions has transformed their faith, relationships, and parenting.This episode is both tender and raw — an honest look at the messy, holy work of coming home to yourself.Key Themes & TakeawaysEmotions Aren’t Enemies, They’re Messengers After years of hearing “faith over feeling,” both hosts are reclaiming their emotions as sacred — not something to suppress, but something to listen to. Righteous Anger as a Force for Good Liz shares how anger has become a holy motivator for change — a muscle she’s still learning to use wisely and courageously.Safety, Authenticity & the Nervous System They discuss the toll of living in constant spiritual and emotional high alert — and what happens when the body finally realizes it was never truly safe.From Faking It to Feeling It Liz’s story of exhaustion from “faking it” in faith spaces resonates with so many listeners who’ve masked their true selves to belong.Learning to Feel Safe With Ourselves Esther shares how her own healing journey has brought her to a surprising place: genuine safety in her own presence — no longer fearing the God who was always “watching,” but resting in love itself.Reclaiming the “Too Much” Self Together they celebrate the parts of themselves once labeled “too emotional,” “too intense,” or “too much.” As Esther says, “I’m not someone to hide — I’m someone to honor.”Why This Episode MattersIf you were ever told your emotions were untrustworthy, that your heart was deceitful, or that safety could only be found outside yourself — this episode will meet you right where you are.Esther and Liz remind us that feelings are not flaws. They are sacred signals that lead us toward wholeness, self-trust, and the kind of peace that can’t be forced.

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• Walking the Middle Path - Dr. Camden Morgante

  Licensed psychologist and author Dr. Camden Morgante joins us to explore the “middle path” from DBT and how it reshapes faith, nervous-system healing, sexuality, and parenting after high-control religion. We talk about spiritual bypassing versus true healing, pendulation in EMDR, setting wise boundaries, and cultivating a values-based sexual ethic. The middle path costs something. It also grows deep roots.In this episode you’ll hear aboutWhat “walking the middle path” means and why both-and thinking is essential in deconstructionSigns your healing is taking hold: cognitive flexibility, compassion, curiosity, less shameConnection-based parenting and becoming a safe place for our kidsBoundaries that honor your body when rooms feel polarizingSpiritual bypassing vs. embodied, grief-honoring faithEMDR’s pendulation and widening the window of toleranceBuilding a values-based sexual ethic after purity cultureLetting healing be slow, playful, and non-linearAbout our guest Dr. Camden Morgante is a licensed psychologist, coach, speaker, and author of Recovering from Purity Culture. She writes the Substack Walking the Middle Path, helping readers practice both-and thinking in faith and life. She lives in Knoxville, TN with her family.Connect with Dr. CamdenWebsite: drcamden.comSubstack: https://drcamden.substack.com/Socials: @drcamdenBook: Recovering from Purity Culture 

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• The Sacred Fog of the In-Between - Lizz Enns Petters & Esther Joy Goetz

  In this week’s episode, Lizz and Esther talk about the in-between—that blurry stretch between certainty and freedom. We talk about control and compassion, about nervous systems that don’t need theology as much as safety, and about finding community outside the old walls of church.We don’t have tidy answers (we’ve tried those before).But we do have a few anchors for the fog.Anchors for the In-BetweenWhen the old ways of praying, believing, or belonging don’t work anymore—start here:Tree time. Sit under one. Lean against it. Let your breath match its calm.Look up. Sky therapy. A reminder you’re part of something vast and kind.Cozy is sacred. Blankets, warm mugs, soft clothes—small acts of self-compassion that retrain your body to feel safe again.Medicine isn’t weakness. Sometimes your nervous system needs help to unclench. That’s healing, not failure.Rest ≠ avoidance. Rest is recovery. Avoidance is fear. The difference is compassion.A Few Things We Said (and Meant)“God isn’t controlling the universe like a puppet show. Love is still here, and it looks like presence.” “Your body isn’t broken—it’s responding wisely to what’s been too much.” “Use your low beams in the fog. Slow is holy.”If You’re Here Right NowIf you’re not sure what you believe, or where you belong, or if any of this still counts as faith—welcome.You’re not alone.The fog is temporary.And even here, you’re being held by something softer, wider, and more loving than fear ever was.

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