Sounds of SAND

• #117 Minds Under Siege: Gabor Maté, Naomi Klein & Cecilie Surasky

  In this SAND Community Gathering (January 2025), journalist Naomi Klein and trauma expert Dr. Gabor Maté explored the complex intersection of collective trauma, political power, and memory in a discussion moderated by Cecilie Surasky. Drawing from Naomi’s recent analysis of how trauma has been weaponized in current conflicts, and Gabor’s deep understanding of trauma’s psychological impacts, their conversation examined how media narratives and political rhetoric weaponize fear and trauma to gain public support for military and political crimes. The discussion addressed the troubling speed at which the Oct 7 Jewish trauma is now converted into a spectacle through virtual reality experiences, museum exhibitions, and immersive memorials, while questioning who gets to control these narratives and to what end. Together, they explored alternatives for remembering that might lead toward healing rather than perpetuating cycles of violence. We hear from several Community Gathering audience members with their questions in the second half of the episode. Gabor Maté, M.D. is a specialist on trauma, addiction, stress and childhood development. After 20 years of family practice and palliative care experience, Dr. Maté worked for over a decade in Vancouver’s Downtown East Side with patients challenged by drug addiction and mental illness. For his groundbreaking medical work and writing he has been awarded the Order of Canada, his country’s highest civilian distinction, and the Civic Merit Award from his hometown, Vancouver. Gabor is also the creator of a psychotherapeutic approach, Compassionate Inquiry, now studied by thousands of therapists, physicians, counselors, and others in over 80 countries. Naomi Klein is an award-winning journalist and New York Times bestselling author. She is a columnist with The Guardian. In 2018 she was named the inaugural Gloria Steinem Endowed Chair at Rutgers University and is now Honorary Professor of Media and Climate at Rutgers. In September 2021 she joined the University of British Columbia as UBC Professor of Climate Justice (tenured) and co-director of the Centre for Climate Justice. Cecilie Surasky is the Director of Communications and Narrative at the Othering & Belonging Institute (OBI), where she leads an incredible team focused on integrating strategic communications and narrative strategies. With a background in Religious Studies and Semiotics, Cecilie views all narratives as sacred, and believes that leaders, for better or worse, often serve as modern-day high priests. As former deputy director of Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) she led impactful campaigns aimed at building a co-liberation movement and garnering support for Palestinian human rights. Topics 00:00 Introduction and Welcome 00:45 Panel Introduction and Moderator 01:31 Exploring Trauma and Its Impact 02:44 Weaponizing Trauma in Conflict 06:14 Historical Context and Jewish Identity 10:54 Challenging Narratives and Identities 15:09 The Role of Trauma in Shaping Perspectives 30:35 The Impact of Trauma on Palestinians 32:17 Structures of Deliberate Traumatization 37:48 Healing and Moving Forward 41:50 Debunking Historical Myths 42:12 Instrumentalization of Trauma 43:24 Hollywood's Role in Shaping Trauma Narratives 46:30 Economic and Political Motives Behind the Holocaust 48:27 Comparing Historical and Modern Genocides 49:59 Imagining a State Focused on Healing Trauma 51:00 Reclaiming and Reinterpreting History 58:29 The Role of Compassion in Addressing Trauma 01:05:44 Palestinian Perspectives on Healing and Storytelling 01:13:21 Concluding Thoughts and Future Conversations Resources Naomi Klein’s Website Gabor Maté’s Website Other and Belonging Institute Jewish Voices for Peace Naomi Klein’s Article on Israel Weaponizing Trauma: “How Israel has made trauma a weapon of war” (The Guardian) Doppelganger: A Trip into the Mirror World by Naomi Klein The Myth of Normal: Trauma, Illness & Healing in a Toxic Culture by Gabor Maté Watch SAND’s Where Olive Trees Weep Purchase SAND’s full 23-video series Conversations on Palestine Watch SAND’s The Wisdom of Trauma Learn more about the SAND Community Gatherings Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

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• #116  Echoes of Resilience: Rawan Roshni

  Rawan Roshni is in conversation to discuss the recent ceasefire announcement affecting Palestine and offers a poignant and emotional reflection on the situation. She shares stories from her displaced Palestinian heritage, detailing her family's survival and the ongoing trauma faced by Palestinians. We explore the healing modalities of sound, music, and the human voice and listen to two of her newest live pieces of music and poetry, “Al-Tuyoor: Messages from the Birds” and “Prophecy of Remembrance”. Rawan Roshni is a Palestinian/Balkan, Global Citizen, Arab Woman, based in Jordan. She uses her voice as an Artivist through her singing/songwriting and facilitation of brave spaces focusing her work in the SWANA region. She has co-founded multiple interfaith and world music projects and most recently has been touring her solo tri-lingual live-looping Music & Poetry performance Al-Tuyoor: Messages from the Birds for 2 years across 7 countries and counting! Her facilitation work over the past decade has ranged from issues such as conflict transformation, collective liberation, catalyzing community, emotional processing tools, conscious relating, consent and more! She fuses Sound, Movement and Intuitive Rituals as tools in her work, bringing elements such as group singing, sound work through vocalization, whirling dance, and intentional nature-based practices. Topics: 00:00 Introduction and Welcome 00:29 Emotional Reactions to Ceasefire 01:38 Mixed Feelings and Skepticism 04:01 Personal Connection to Palestine 05:17 Family History and Displacement 09:21 Art and Music as Healing 11:43 The Power of the Human Voice 12:38 Artivism and Activism 19:20 “Prophecy of Rememberance” (song) 38:07 Birds as Messengers 57:50 Future Projects and Closing Remarks Resources: Website Instagram Nada Bramha Aboriginal Song Lines “Conference of the Birds” by Manṭiq-uṭ-Ṭayr Sacred Activism Course at Tamera Sacred Activism Course in Montenegro Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

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• #115 Remembering Nature’s Ways: Darcia Narvaez

  In this live SAND Community Gathering (January 2025), SAND co-founders Maurizio and Zaya Benazzo welcome Darcia Narvaez, professor emeritus of psychology at the University of Notre Dame, to discuss her interdisciplinary research on evolved morality, child development, and human flourishing. Narvaez shares insights from her book, The Evolved Nest, and explores the impact of modern parenting practices, the benefits of communal child-rearing, and the neurological and emotional development of children. The discussion also holds space for the importance of nature immersion, indigenous practices, and the detrimental effects of trauma on development. The episode concludes with practical tips for parents and communities to foster a nurturing environment based on centuries-old wisdom. Topics 00:00 Introduction and Welcome 00:46 Guest Introduction: Darcia Narvaez 02:14 Darcia's Journey and Early Influences 05:32 The Concept of the Evolved Nest 08:34 Modern Birth Practices and Their Impact 14:08 Parenting and Child Development in Indigenous Communities 16:36 The Role of Community in Child Rearing 19:52 Education and Learning: Western vs. Indigenous Approaches 27:54 The Impact of Trauma in Modern and Natural Worlds 28:42 The Impact of Early Trauma on Male Elephants 29:04 Developmental Needs of Young Males 29:52 The Role of Older Males in Elephant Social Structure 30:43 Human Development and Mentorship 31:16 The Importance of Multi-Aged Groups 32:01 Rites of Passage and Ceremonial Transitions 33:03 Vertical and Horizontal Connectedness 34:10 The Influence of Christianity and Patriarchy 35:08 Creation Spirituality and Indigenous Worldview 36:05 The Evolved Nest and Modern Parenting 37:15 The Role of Community in Child Development 39:39 The Importance of Nature and Healing Practices 46:17 Learning from Octopus Intelligence 48:04 Restoring the Kinship Worldview 51:05 Conclusion and Call to Action Resources The Evolved Nest (website) The Evolved Nest: Nature's Way of Raising Children and Creating Connected Communities (book) Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

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• #114 On Grief, Belonging & Intimacy: David Whyte & Gayle Karen Young

  Recorded live at a SAND Community Gathering (December 2024) hosted by Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo. In this intimate conversation with poet and philosopher David Whyte and his wife, cultural architect Gayle Karen Young, explore the tender territories of grief, belonging and rest. Drawing from David’s new book Consolations II, this unique dialogue offers a glimpse into how two lives intertwine in both understanding and living these essential human experiences and how loss and heartbreak can become doorways to deeper belonging. The conversation weaves together poetry, contemplative wisdom, and the authentic experience of two people who have walked the path of partnership through its many thresholds. It offers both practical insight and spiritual nourishment for anyone seeking to understand how we grow through love’s many faces—from its first tender beginnings to its most profound depths of kinship. David Whyte, raised between his Irish mother’s imaginative influence and his father’s Yorkshire landscapes, now calls the Pacific Northwest home. He is the author of twelve books of poetry and five books of prose, holding a degree in Marine Zoology and bringing rich experience from his years as a naturalist guide in the Galapagos Islands and leader of expeditions in the Andes, Amazon, and Himalaya. Gayle Karen Young is a cultural architect and catalyst for human and organizational development who believes the world needs leaders who are “able for” what lies ahead. With over two decades in leadership development, she focuses on both the visible, practical aspects of leadership and the invisible work of creating spaces where others can thrive. Topics: 00:00 Introduction and Welcome 00:37 Meet the Guests: Gayle Karen Young and David Whyte 02:41 The Power of Poetry and Reflection 03:37 Exploring Grief and Intimacy 09:02 Collective Grief and Global Suffering 27:20 The Role of Vulnerability in Leadership 30:14 Exploring Grief and Progressive Patriotism 30:52 The Everyday Invitation to Vulnerability 31:42 Understanding the Path of Care 35:34 The Seasonality of Care and Grief 39:19 The Overwhelming Nature of Modern Connectivity 41:53 The Essence of Loving Your Neighbor 43:32 The Bell and the Blackbird: An Irish Koan 52:04 The Importance of Silence and Relationship 54:33 Concluding Thoughts and Gratitude Resources: David Whyte’s Website Gayle Karen Young’s Website David’s new book Consolations II Mary Frances O’Connor - The Grieving Brain: The Surprising Science of How We Learn from Love and Loss Martin Prechtel - The Smell of Rain on Dust: Grief and Praise Dacher Keltner - Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

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• #113 Ancient Rhythms: Pat McCabe & Francis Weller

  Join us as we journey into the depths of winter’s sacred darkness with renowned wisdom keepers Pat McCabe (Woman Stands Shining) and Francis Weller. Recorded on December 21, 2024, at SAND’s Winter Solstice gathering, this episode invites you into a virtual ceremonial space that honors the winter solstice as a powerful moment of transition and transformation. Through poetry, storytelling, and profound dialogue, McCabe and Weller guide us in exploring the sacred landscapes of loss and regeneration. Drawing from Indigenous wisdom and archetypal psychology, they illuminate how embracing grief and releasing what no longer serves can awaken the tender seeds of renewal within us. This is an invitation to witness and metabolize both personal and collective transitions, understanding death not as an end but as a sacred dreaming—a portal to transformation. This episode offers a contemplative space to embrace life’s cyclical nature, reflecting on the solstice as a time for inner alchemy. Together, we honor the rhythms of descent and renewal, finding meaning and hope in the fertile darkness of winter. Whether you are seeking solace, inspiration, or deeper connection, this conversation is a profound offering for anyone navigating the thresholds of life. Pat McCabe (Weyakpa Najin Win, Woman Stands Shining) is a Diné (Navajo) mother, grandmother, activist, artist, writer, ceremonial leader, and international speaker. She is a voice for global peace, and her paintings are created as tools for individual, earth and global healing. She draws upon the Indigenous sciences of Thriving Life to reframe questions about sustainability and balance, and she is devoted to supporting the next generations, Women’s Nation and Men’s Nation, in being functional members of the “Hoop of Life” and upholding the honor of being human. Francis Weller, MFT, is a psychotherapist, writer and soul activist. He is a master of synthesizing diverse streams of thought from psychology, anthropology, mythology, alchemy, indigenous cultures and poetic traditions. Author of The Wild Edge of Sorrow: Rituals of Renewal and the Sacred Work of Grief; The Threshold Between Loss and Revelation, (with Rashani Réa) and In the Absence of the Ordinary: Essays in a Time of Uncertainty, he has introduced the healing work of ritual to thousands of people. He founded and directs WisdomBridge, an organization that offers educational programs that seek to integrate the wisdom from indigenous cultures with the insights and knowledge gathered from western poetic, psychological and spiritual traditions. Topics 00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene 02:07 Introducing the Guests: Pat McCabe and Francis Weller 03:30 Pat McCabe's Opening Reflections 08:24 The Sacredness of Water and Ceremony 19:07 Francis Weller on Grief and Gratitude 22:54 The Long Dark: Embracing Darkness and Descent 27:49 The Medicine for the Long Dark 40:48 The Gift of Shame and Healing 41:27 Facing Grief Together 42:44 Embracing the Darkness 43:39 Interconnectedness and Affection 45:11 The Medicine of Rest and Patience 49:14 A Journey to Hiroshima 52:43 The Power of Storytelling 58:10 “Heabeat” by Danit (song) 01:04:37 Fearless Generosity and the Hollow Reed 01:09:00 The Necessity of Beauty 01:13:11 Closing Reflections and Prayers Resources from Episode Danit - Heartbeat Refugia (Kathleen Dean Moore) Embodiment Matters - On Creating Refugia: Some New Offerings Duane Elgin - Choosing Earth: Humanity’s Transition to a New Civilization Deborah Eden Tull - Luminous Darkness David Whyte - Sweet Darkness Joan Halifax - The Fruitful Darkness Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

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